tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post9073793610741540278..comments2023-08-05T10:13:38.959-04:00Comments on Impractical Theology: Brian McLaren's Open Letter to Conservative Christians in the U.S. on HealthcareAdamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03708322695991246818noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-25773341773297511412009-09-21T13:01:30.827-04:002009-09-21T13:01:30.827-04:00Thanks Chris, Michael, and Adam. Good discussion....Thanks Chris, Michael, and Adam. Good discussion. Good info.craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06615747788474076177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-86683972549230045352009-08-24T13:38:51.201-04:002009-08-24T13:38:51.201-04:00Michael,
I couldn't agree with you more.
AEMichael,<br />I couldn't agree with you more.<br />AEAdamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03708322695991246818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-23293689636689404402009-08-24T13:36:01.892-04:002009-08-24T13:36:01.892-04:00Adam,
I agree completely with being civil. IMHO,...Adam,<br /><br />I agree completely with being civil. IMHO, neither side in the argument has a monopoly on incivility. It is sad that it apparently has to be an argument. However, vehemence is not the same as violence.<br /><br />It is trite, yes, but perhaps Christians should approach the topic from a "How would Jesus discuss this?" perspective.MichaelPoluttahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17323419529329808450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-75888112366259935012009-08-24T12:13:36.020-04:002009-08-24T12:13:36.020-04:00Michael,
I had similar thoughts when I looked at t...Michael,<br />I had similar thoughts when I looked at that site. I still like the overall idea that McLaren is promoting here to re: civility.<br />AEAdamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03708322695991246818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-2566339257062111332009-08-24T12:10:06.039-04:002009-08-24T12:10:06.039-04:00With http://blog.faithinpubliclife.org/ I have to ...With http://blog.faithinpubliclife.org/ I have to wonder why anyone considers this a "truth filter" of any kind.<br /><br />They state very clearly their support of reform. As one example, here is a quote from the 7/27/2009 post:<br /><br />"Ps, for an excellent observation on the Scriptural support for universal care, check out Oliver Thomas' excellent op-ed in today's USA Today."<br /><br />I have a hard time trusting this site as any kind of "truth watchdog."MichaelPoluttahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17323419529329808450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-77292243622842794612009-08-17T14:26:20.343-04:002009-08-17T14:26:20.343-04:00Your comments duly noted.
I found this over the w...Your comments duly noted.<br /><br />I found this over the weekend.<br /><br />Google:<br /><br />Public Option Will Pull Plug on Medical InnovationChrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713185419474601750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-32453671175054801222009-08-17T11:20:45.850-04:002009-08-17T11:20:45.850-04:00Chris,
Why do you assume that I'm "a libe...Chris,<br />Why do you assume that I'm "a liberal"? Is it it because I don't hold a particular view on one particular issue? (I haven't actually stated an opinion besides "I'm still making up my mind"). Or, have you observed this blog over time and come to this conclusion?<br />As a point of clarification, I don't claim to be "a liberal" (or "a conservative" for that matter). I find these categories to be deeply unhelpful. They are completely relative to the person applying the catagory, while passing themselves off as objective and totalizing. Additionally, as the philosopher Soren Kierkegaard once said "If you label me, you negate me." It seems to me that these categories function as shortcuts that seduce us into sidestepping alternate perspectives on issues, and frankly sidestepping the people who hold such perspectives. Such sidestepping of others, if we aren't careful, can become demonizing of others. <br /><br />I have heard of the alleged Obama, Factcheck.org, Ayers connection before. Because of the persistence of the allegation, I always make a point to include other websites with a similar mission. However, I would note that Factcheck.org actually mentions it on their own website: <br /><br /><i>"Contrary to suggestions we've seen in some conservative blogs, there is no connection between the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and FactCheck.org, save for the fact that both received funding from the Annenberg Foundation. The foundation supports a wide variety of charitable causes – a total of 5,200 grants during its first 15 years of operation. It was founded in 1989 by Walter H. Annenberg, a newspaper and magazine publisher who died in 2002.<br /><br />FactCheck.org is funded by, and is a project of, the Annenberg Public Policy Center, which was established by the Annenberg Foundation with a $20 million endowment in 1993. The Annenberg Foundation also made additional grants to support our work. We also receive funding from the Flora Family Foundation to help support our educational offshoot, FactCheckED.org. We receive no other outside funding.<br /><br />FactCheck.org came into being in late 2003. Director Brooks Jackson states: "Our mission is to be as neutral and nonpartisan as humanly possible. Annenberg supports that, and nobody at the Annenberg Foundation has ever tried to influence anything we've written."<br /><br />For the record, the Annenberg Foundation's president and chairman is Leonore Annenberg, the founder's widow. Public records show she's given $2,300 to the McCain campaign, which announced on Oct. 8, that she has endorsed him for president."</i><br /><br />In my opinion, this allegation is analogous to saying that Fox News Network reflects the political views of Rupert Murdoch (which it doesn't...even remotely).<br />AEAdamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03708322695991246818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-16004525723229524282009-08-16T00:59:26.725-04:002009-08-16T00:59:26.725-04:00First of all, thanks for being civil. Not many lib...First of all, thanks for being civil. Not many liberals are.<br /><br />Throughout history individual freedom has been the exception rather than the rule. America has been the near perfect exception---until now.<br /><br />The federal government is grabbing up the private sector at an alarming rate, the mortgage industry, the banks, the car industry, the energy sector and now the health care industry. A lot of things are happening before our eyes and not according to the Constitution.<br /><br />As to your assertion that factcheck.org is non-partisan I hardly think so. The Annenberg Public Policy Center, the sponsoring agency behind Fastcheck.org is itself supported by the same foundation, The Annenberg Foundation, that terrorist Bill Ayers secured the 49.2 million dollars from to create the Chicago Annenberg Challenge "philanthropic" organization in which Barack Obama was the founding Chairman of the Board for and Ayers served as the grant writer of and co-Chair of for its two operating arms.<br /><br />As Ronald Reagan said, "Freedom is a fragile thing and it never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom, and then lost it, have never known it again."<br /><br />We are dangerously close to losing it.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713185419474601750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-82913906720289343502009-08-15T19:24:07.696-04:002009-08-15T19:24:07.696-04:00Chris,
I find your statement "I don't rel...Chris,<br />I find your statement "I don't rely on sources" fascinating. What do you mean by this? Are you implying that you attended the AFLCIO Speach or that you watched a broadcast? Or are you saying that you searched for the information until you found statements directly from Obama on the subject? Did you read or listen to the entire speech or just this segment? Does this single comment settle the matter for you, or did you look for additional (and possibly later) statements on the subject? Did anyone direct you to this segment of this speech, or did you find it through your own research? How do you attain information with no sources? BTW, here is the factcheck piece on the speech you quoted: http://tinyurl.com/opf8m5<br /><br />As for how to tell if someone has bias...I have a theory on how to tell. Check to see if they are breathing. We are all biased...every one of us (myself included). As individuals, we are all embedded in our own perspectives. Individually we all re-craft reality (and even God) in our own image. When we admit this about ourselves, and are willing to listen to the perspectives of others (not blindly accept, but also not merely tolerate), then we can get to something closer to truth. That's why I like the fact-checking sites I linked to before. They are collaborative sites with lots of checks and balances from all sides to help with integrity. They are equal-opportunity, calling out distortions on all sides. (For a great example of this, check out the interesting, if cheesily named Pundit Fact-o-meter: http://tinyurl.com/p9p2x6 )<br /><br />I'm not necessarily a proponent of this particular version of Health Care Reform as proposed by the President. Given your stated (and admirable) preference for going directly to the source, I was wondering if you have read the actual health care bill in its entirity? My wife also feels strongly about going to the source, and she has read it. Here's a link where you can download it: http://tinyurl.com/nqj8bc I'm still making up my mind. <br /><br />I'd really like you to help me understand how you have come to the conclusion that Obama wants "total control over every part of our lives". It's a pretty large claim, and I assume you wouldn't make it without a mountain of evidence. <br /><br />I didn't take McLaren's article to be particularly arguing for a certain version of health care reform as he was arguing for honesty and civility from those who disagree with each other on this issue or any other. I happen to know that he has quite a track record of practicing what he's proposing here.<br />Blessings,<br />AEAdamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03708322695991246818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-13929496162051992762009-08-15T15:52:03.103-04:002009-08-15T15:52:03.103-04:00I don't rely on "sources," partisan ...I don't rely on "sources," partisan or not because one can never tell if someone has a bias. I like to get information straight from the person in question.<br /><br />For example, consider Obama's words from a speech to the AFL-CIO IN 2003.<br /><br />"I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan, that's what I would like to see. But as you all know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House." (So much for keeping your own private plan.)<br /><br />Then consider the people who surround him as advisors. He has <br />more than 30 czars at my last count who do not need confirmation by the Senate. Some of their statements are truly frightening.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713185419474601750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-16702591692963057132009-08-15T11:15:09.639-04:002009-08-15T11:15:09.639-04:00Chris,
I was honestly not trying to imply anything...Chris,<br />I was honestly not trying to imply anything by my question. All I have to go on to discern where you are coming from is a first name, and the sentence you typed. I was trying to discern where you were coming from in order to properly be able to engage with your comments.<br /><br />Could you provide s link or two to non-partisan sources that verify your claim about what you call "Obamacare"? Help me understand where you are coming from.<br /><br />I can recommend the following two sites as excellent non-partisan sources, but I can't find anything there that verifies your claims. Take a look and tell me if you see something I don't.<br /><br />http://www.factcheck.org<br />http://www.politifact.com<br /><br />Blessings,<br />AE<br /><br />P.S. I would like to talk more about how Christianity should shape our discourse later, but I want to understand what you are saying and where you are coming from first.Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03708322695991246818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-45689002855175861322009-08-15T11:06:12.496-04:002009-08-15T11:06:12.496-04:00I absolutely consider myself a Christian but I wou...I absolutely consider myself a Christian but I would not consider following Billy Graham, Rick Warren or the Pope any more than I would consider following Brian McClaren.<br /><br />If McClaren believes what he says regarding health care reform,(reducing national debt, helping poorest without reducing services to the rest, encouraging small business, etc.) then he had better run as fast as he can from Obamacare. Obama wants total control over our lives. With him it is not evem about health care, it is about control. America will not stand for it and rightly so.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713185419474601750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-50196240788285075422009-08-14T22:52:57.055-04:002009-08-14T22:52:57.055-04:00brian and chris,
Out of curiosity,do you consider ...brian and chris,<br />Out of curiosity,do you consider yourselves to be Christian?<br />AEAdamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03708322695991246818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-46262215474261587912009-08-14T21:24:45.215-04:002009-08-14T21:24:45.215-04:00There may have been a liberal Democrat with integr...There may have been a liberal Democrat with integrity and civility towards President Bush--I just never met one. On the contrary, they were likely to hang him in effigy.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713185419474601750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-2426450691027211912009-08-14T21:04:27.213-04:002009-08-14T21:04:27.213-04:00Where was the integrity and civility in communicat...Where was the integrity and civility in communication and debate during the Bush administration?brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15014051299376830649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6777715.post-88382449197044689452009-08-11T11:51:19.455-04:002009-08-11T11:51:19.455-04:00This article is a much-needed MRI of the American ...This article is a much-needed MRI of the American conservative Evangelical psyche. I do hope that many will take this to heart before Christianity is DOA in the minds of the Millennials and the generations to follow.Mike the Eyeguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18350249777326826707noreply@blogger.com